r/Nordiccountries • • 18h ago

Støre and Stubb calls Moscow.

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Alexander Mercouris: Huge Russian Kiev Strike; Missile Smashes Key Bridge; EU Blinks Putin Unyielding When Leaders Call

"...In the middle of all of this, we have had an actual diplomatic initiative by the Europeans. The PM of Norway, Mr. Støre and the President of Finland, President Stubb, both btw bitter hard-liners, the same pair that basically handled Zelensky during Zelensky's recent meeting with Witkoff, the meeting that took place directly before Witkoff flew to St Petersburg, met with Putin in the Konstantinovski Palace in St Petersburg, had what I'm starting to think was a fairly bruising encounter with Putin, in which Putin again refused to give an inch, and insisted that any future talks must be about the security architecture of Europe, the topic of my video yesterday.

Anyway, Støre and Stubb, out of the blue, perhaps increasingly concerned by information that might be trickling through to them, about how Putin rejected outright the proposals that the Europeans and the Americans and the Ukrainians had cobbled together, a proposal basically giving the Russians a choice, either take Donbas and accept that Ukraine will join Nato, or agree to a seizefire on the conflict lines, in which case Ukraine won't join Nato for the time being.

Anyway, perhaps Støre and Stubb were alarmed by what they heard about what happened in St Petersburg in the Konstantinovki Palace, and perhaps they are also further alarmed by the information they are getting about the situation in Ukraine, the attacks on Kiev, the strikes on the Dniepr bridges, all of those things. But apparently, shortly after the strike on the south bridge in Kiev took place they contacted the Kremlin and asked to speak to Putin and a conversation took place in which Støre and Stubb both spoke to Putin, and Putin of course spoke to them.

Now, we've had some explanations from the Finns and the Norwegians about what the Finns and the Norwegians were trying to do, and according to what we're hearing from them, it was an attempt to try to get Putin to agree what they describe as a de-escalation in advance of the start of the negotiations in a few weeks' time. And what they mean of course, by a de-escalation, is an attempt to get the Russians to stop, or at least to slow down what they are currently doing in Ukraine.

I've discussed in many programs now, going back to the beginning of September, how the entire Western diplomatic effort directed at the Russians, has been in some form or other intended to try to persuade the Russians to stop. That was Radcliffe's purpose when he went to Moscow, that was Witkoff and Kushner's purpose, when they also went to Moscow a little later, both in September, that was Trump's purpose, when he telephoned Putin in September, that was again the further purpose of Witkoff's visit to St Petersburg where he met Putin at the Kontantinovki Palace a couple of days ago.

Witkoff in fact was quite open about it, that it was all about working towards a cessation of hostilities. A seize-fire in other words, something which of course Putin has always and consistently, flatly rejected. And, well, the American initiatives, as we read in the New York Times, originated with the Europeans, the Europeans were pressing the Americans to resume contacts with the Russians, to try to get the Russians to agree to stop, and the Europeans have been increasingly alarmed that all the American efforts have come to nothing, and they're probably even more alarmed at the news that instead of getting the Russians to stop, the Americans are now preparing or proposing or agreeing to talk about the security architecture of Europe instead, something which of course the Europeans do not want under any circumstances.

So, in this very difficult situation, Støre and Stubb apparently took the decision, so far as I can tell, without much consultation with the other European states, and before any chief European negotiator has been appointed, they took the initiative to call Putin, and to try to get Putin again to stop.

Now, we have a readout about this conversation from the Kremlin, and the readout makes it absolutely clear that Putin refused to stop. And this is what it says and I'm taking it from the Kremlin's website, it says that "there was an exchange of views on settling the Ukraine crisis in light of Vladimir Putin's talks with Steve Witkoff in St Petersburg on October 21st, as well as Stubb's and Støre's own recent contact with Witkoff and Zelensky in Oslo.

The parties welcome the agreement to resume trilateral talks between Russia, Ukraine and the US in Abu Dhabi, in early to mid December, intended..." and notice this is what the Russians say, "...intended in particular to discuss ways to ensure the security of both Russia and Ukraine, once a complete cessation of hostilities is reached." In other words, again the Russians making it clear that the topic that is going to be discussed in Abu Dhabi is the security architecture of Europe.

And then the readout continues: "Vladimir Putin assessed the current situation in the Ukraine conflict zone", in other words again lectured them on what was actually the situation on the battlefronts and in the sky, not the fairytales about stalemates and Russia only gaining 100 km2 of territory in Ukraine since the start of this year, that much of the Western media has been saying and as Western leaders doubtless say to each other.

So, "...Putin assessed the current situation in the conflict zone, reiterating its root causes", in other words the expansion of Nato and the coup that the Russians say took place in Ukraine in February 2014, and its concequences, just to say.

And then, to continue the readout "...and emphasizing that a just and lasting peace would only be possible if the interests of Russia are considered in full, and without any conditions attached. In addition, Putin noted the EU and Nato's confrontational policies which has resulted in prolonging the war."

So that is Putin said to Støre and Stubb, 'if you want to end the war, if you really want to see this war end, you have to have a realistic view of what is actually happening in the conflict zone, you have to stop the confrontational policies which have extended the hostilities, your help with the drone war, your continued funding and arming of Ukraine, you've got to agree to stop this policy of expanding Nato eastwards, and you also got to take our security concerns into account, and you've got to do that in full, and without attaching any conditions.'

It is the demands for unconditional acceptance of Russia's security demands which stands out for me in this readout. So, if the Russians decide for example that in order for there to be peace, all Nato forces must be withdrawn from Eastern Europe and from the Nordic states, and that Nato must return to the positions that it had in 1998 before Nato expansion began, well, in order for there to be peace, the Western powers must accept that unconditionally.

Now, that is an extreme demand, I wonder whether Stubb or Støre understood the implications of it, but, well, it is as I said an extraordinary comment, but it is there in the Russian readout that you can find on the Kremlin's website.

And then of course Putin had more to say, he also came and brought up the situation in the Baltic, he said "ensuring security in the Baltic Sea and Northern Europe", well that was discussed as well. "In this regard, both the President of Finland and the PM of Norway reaffirmed the importance of upholding international maritime law and the freedom of navigation."

Now, that paragraph contains within it what I suspect was a very intense discussion indeed. Putin telling the Norwegians and the Finns 'what's all this that is going on in the Baltic. What are all these military maneuvers that you are engaging in. What is all of this talk about Kaliningrad that we are hearing. What is all of this chatter about naval blockades and blockades of Kaliningrad. Do you understand, that if you actually act on any of this, if you continue to seize tankers and other ships...', something which btw I've noticed has not been happening for some time now. '...but if you continue this practice of seizing tankers, do you not realize that we're going to respond? And if you have any ideas of denying the Baltic to our shipping, if you fall for this delusional myth that is circulating on some parts of the media in the West, that the Baltic is now a Nato lake, well be prepared for a very tough reaction from us.'

Anyway, after all of that, according to the Russians, Støre and Stubb gave this assurance to Putin 'we're not planning any interference with your merchant shipping, we're not going to seize any of your ships, or maybe we are but we're not really planning to interfere with freedom of navigation, there is no possibility of any blockades, be it on Kaliningrad or St Petersburg or anywhere else in Russia, in the Baltic being imposed, these ideas are entirely alien to us.'

Of course the Russians are not going to simply accept assurances of that kind, particularly assurances doubtless extracted over what I suspect was a very intense call, but it does again highlight the sort of subjects that this call covered.

Anyway, there was that, there was also apparently a discussion over the current humanitarian cease-fire in Alesjki in Kherson region which I'm not going to discuss, and interestingly, Støre and Stubb and Putin agreed that they would all remain in touch. One might assume perhaps correctly, that Støre and Stubb, Stubb perhaps in particular, have just on their own initiative, appointed themselves Europe's representatives in conducting negotiations with the Russians."

I wonder why the Danish PM thinks her opinion is needed on who our PM is talking to.


r/Nordiccountries • • 15h ago

FI, SE and NO each have their own brand of rubberboots

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118 Upvotes

Finland has Nokian, Sweden has Tretorn and Norway has Viking. Have owned multiple pairs from all brands, and they're all decent. Currently rocking a pair of Vikings as my dailies. (am Finnish)